"BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast." (boxerfanatic) 03/12/2015 at 16:23 • Filed to: None

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Sometimes it SUCKS that we can't have nice things. (not my photoshop job, whomever did it did a great job, I just came across it.)

Why would Subaru think this is less than a fantastic idea? Why can't we have this particular nice thing?

The only rational reason coming to me... nobody anywhere near the demographic (20-50 year olds) that would like something like this, has the money to buy new cars in general... But the counter-point is that somehow there is a business case for the sedan-only WRX and STI with less versatility than this, and stricter CAFE regs for the lower 'passenger cars', and those are selling to *somebody*.

And, btw... also bring a 3-door version to go along with the 5-door...

I want an affordable, versatile, high-performing car to be enthusiastic about again. There is good (new Mustang)... there is bland (new WRX) , even a few WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROTs... (Juke, how on earth can that vehicle popular?), but not much in the affordable realm that is truly inspiring that makes me want to say "I BADLY WANT THAT. NOW. otherwise as soon as I possibly can afford it, and I am planning that now."

And I am not talking about "aspirational." Everybody dreams way beyond their means... I am talking about *attainable!*

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:26

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I would buy this.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 03/12/2015 at 16:30

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You would be in line behind me.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:31

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XV Crosstrek XT

2.5L EJ255 with a VF52

Dual range 5MT with shorter final drive than a WRX

Price it at 24k for the base model.

Would buy 9/10 times over a WRX.

BeaterGT > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:32

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People(especially on the front page) are FUCKING crazy if they don't think there isn't a demographic for any higher performance version of the current offerings. Not to mention all the turbo marketing and AWD marketing that is so prominent in cars, crossovers, and SUVs today. Subaru is making an awful decision by gentrifying their cars and not catering to the enthusiast market as well.

ACESandEIGHTS > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:32

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I see GM figured out how to rid themselves of some troublesome old stock.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:32

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they should go less in aWRX wanna be route and do something like that mini Raptor thing.

cazzyodo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:39

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They don't need to make it an STI they just need to give it some iron pills so it isn't so damn anemic.

I would have fallen asleep during the test drive if not for the hornets nest getting stirred up ahead of me.

ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 16:48

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I'd buy it used, so I hope you guys are first in line.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > E30Joe drives a Subaru 03/12/2015 at 16:58

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EJ was a valiant work-horse, but it is time to be put out to pasture.

FA20DIT is already tuned to 296hp in the japanese market, but even 268hp like a WRX would be a lot of fun.

An FA25DIT engine might be possible.

A cable-shift WRX gearbox would be passable... an STI drivetrain would be IDEAL... and it isn't exactly new or cutting edge after 10 years of use.

Dual-range would be interesting... or maybe even just a 6-speed that is geared similar to a normal overdrive-5-speed with an ultra-low gear below the road-going first-gear on a dog-leg-high-left shift pattern.

WRX-equivalent power and the cable-shift 6MT for ~24-25K...

296+ horsepower, and STI 6MT, DCCD-AWD, torque-biasing drivetrain, Brembos, Bilstein long-throw dampers, and updated SI-Drive for ~6 grand more. as XV STI.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > cazzyodo 03/12/2015 at 17:45

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They don't need to go full-STI...

but by that measure, the STI doesn't need to exist, itself.

And I am a bit tired of waiting for "merely adequate" that never quite seems to arrive from Subaru without some other caveat... like being sedan-only, or hampered in terms of option configurations.

I want to be enthused about something done well, without caveat. Something that doesn't need any excuses about being limited-appeal, limited versatility, or limited power, or limited gearbox availability.

It may sound like asking for perfection, but I don't think being done properly is such a high expectation.

I want something that doesn't just put a hole in the paper, but actually hits the bullseye it's aimed at.

Something that the detractors will have to make excuses about, not the people enthused about the item itself.

Subaru is almost exclusively *excuse* anymore.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > OPPOsaurus WRX 03/12/2015 at 18:02

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Do you mean this: [Ford EcoSport Storm]

http://gas2.org/2014/11/05/for…

The Ford EcoSport is a compact crossover most Americans have never heard of, and for good reason; it's only sold in Brazil, Thailand, and India

1: What do you think the difference between this, and an XV STI would be, aside from the Subaru being BETTER than a Haldex transverse-turbo-I3?

2: EcoSport is an outgoing model, and not federalized for the US.

3: this is only a concept. Granted the Subaru Cross Sport 3-door is also.

However, the XV Crosstrek is a current production model, as is the WRX STI, and they are both based on the same re-inforced Impreza-base chassis. If history is any indicator, a donor WRX or STI could donate it's guts, and they could all be directly installed into an XV Crosstrek body, as-is. All it would take is the money for two after-retail vehicles.

Subaru officially manufacturing the vehicle would require federalization again (another rant for another day), but they could build a car like this from "the parts-bin" in very short order, and it would WORK, with plenty of power, and in STI's case, with pretty much the best affordable AWD system on the market.

A properly-implemented XV STI would strike back sharply at Ford. Focus RS doesn't have the longitudinal, 3-diff, symmetrical anti-torquesteer AWD that STI does, and it doesn't have ground clearance to use it for more than just tarmac. And Ford's Catfish face, or that ridiculous truck grille on a compact CUV, makes Subaru blandness not seem like such a problem.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BeaterGT 03/12/2015 at 18:07

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It is almost as if they are missing their own boat. On mis-guided purpose.

OPPOsaurus WRX > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/12/2015 at 19:54

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I dont see how the XV would have anything to do with the Focus RS. The RS is Impreza STI territory. An XV would just be a WRX/STI with a lift kit. Why have two nearly identical offerings? I know ones a hatch and ones a sedan but i'm thinking they will eventually come out with a hatch WRX/STI. Give something else the STI treatment that would add variety to the lineup. The Forester or Outback would be great for a more mature larger sports wagon. The legacy would be an awesome sports sedan. I think an XV STI would just be a top heavy impreza STI. With my suggestion, it would keep in line with the outdoorsy image of Subaru, something you could take up a rough mountain trail for camping or cross a desert.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > OPPOsaurus WRX 03/12/2015 at 22:47

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Look up the word "Contrast", as in compare and contrast.

I am suggesting, that since Subaru saw fit to CANCEL the 5-door WRX STI, and re-instating it would put Subaru in a position of selling more "passenger cars" with fuel-drinking performance-oriented turbocharged engines... (not the low-power, displacement-substituting eco-turbos that are becoming common) I don't think there is a big chance of Subaru reversing course.

Subaru has no history of re-activating cancelled cars... or I would be driving my second, newer SVX now. It is almost as if they specifically resist showing that previous decisions might have been mistakes.

Yes... a Focus RS is more akin to a WRX STI 5-door in comparison... but it would CONTRAST with an XV STI that would have similar performance, perhaps a bit less track prowess due to higher CG, but as a road car, or a rally car... the ride height would allow MORE capability. Most people who want road course track domination want better inherently balanced RWD cars, anyway.

Very, VERY few retailed cars see road-course track use. But roads are getting WORSE, not better, and Subaru is also popular with people who venture off pavement to open ground, or trails, which XV is capable of. Hell, a WRX STI can't cross some parking lot SPEED BUMPS without grinding the chassis. What kind of rally car is that?

A WRX STI is not, unless it is modified and raised for rally configuration. A Focus RS isn't either, and there is no performance version of Escape or CX5, and Land Rover Discovery Sport and Range Rover Evoque are expensive.

REAL WORLD, CUVs are gaining popularity for a REAL reason, as in real world conditions getting worse and rougher, not smoother and better, and affording more than one car for fun is less likely. Fun and practical versatility have to coexist more than ever.

Unfortunately, Forester has otherwise abandoned excitement entirely... but I wouldn't argue with an STI version, if it were real, not the weak attempt that Forester tS is, still with it's CVT, and only an appearance package on an ugly body anyway. I really wanted an 09-13 SH generation Forester STI... that ship has sailed away.

Legacy's ship has also sailed. I owned a 2005 Legacy 2.5GT 5MT. I loved that car, but I am not going back to a sedan with a trunk lid, and the Legacy wagon is gone. Outback is less likely to be STI-built than any other Subaru. Legacy is merely a less bold, more-AWD, all-CVT Camry. It is boring, and staying that way. They aren't going to go after BMW 3-series or Audi A4 again after the 05-09 cars... again, Subaru doesn't re-visit cancelled cars... and Legacy GT is cancelled in the US. As dead as SVX, XT, Tribeca, and Impreza Coupe, evidently.

Building an XV STI, instead of a 5-door WRX STI does versatility better than a lowered car, and better than a sedan, while still likely being insanely fun on a variety of surfaces, while moving the thirsty performance turbocharged engine into a "light truck" CAFE category vehicle, with less restrictive standards, and less likelihood of EPA fines.

The same things that XV STI would be capable of over WRX STI, it would also hold advantage of over Focus RS... which Subaru needs to answer if it hopes to compete. The sedan WRX STI would still exist as the "race car"... but the XV would likely have wider appeal in a new and quickly expanding sector, which sport sedans and hot-hatches aren't as quickly growing.

I think XV STI would have a similar reaction to the STI a decade ago, and WRX before that... a big adrenalin shot in the arm.

Burrito de EJ25 > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/13/2015 at 02:10

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There is a business case for a sedan WRX because it's a WRX. It's a low volume enthusiast car. Those who want one will get one because of the pedigree, and, well, 50% of past WRXs (when they offered both variants) were sedans. There's a business case for a Forester XT because CUVs are popular and their competitors offer higher output variants.

There isn't a business case turbo charged XV because A, these sell to a specific niche group of outdoorsy people who want something cheap and perhaps even frugal that'll safely take them out to their favorite hiking trail (hence the hybrid XV), because if they didn't they'd have just gone for a Forester XT. And B, I barely ever see XVs in the wild. I can't imagine they're big movers for Subaru.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Burrito de EJ25 03/13/2015 at 10:53

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Forester XT is NOT a performance vehicle, and the only reason it exists is to not be completely and utterly outclassed by every other CUV in it's segment that offers Turbo or V6 power levels... and in order NOT to have to step on Outback's toes with an H6 under the hood. Please don't confuse Forester XT with a performance vehicle.

WRX is withering on the vine, and things like "pedigree" and "tradition" will only get you to the least common denominator, not to a segment leader and a new blockbuster model.

It's Focus RS competition will NOT be a sedan at all. Sedans days as the top-dog body-style are *over*, and "pedigree" is a euphemism for having your perspective locked on the PAST, not on the future. And I am not suggesting that the sedan WRX and WRX STI be cancelled... I am just saying don't bother with a 5-door, when the 5-door WRX would better be suited as an XV product, not another low-stance car... or at the very least, IN ADDITION to another low-stance car.

Too many people have discovered CUVs and SUVs with hatches on the back that are much more accommodating.

Even if some still want a low-to-the-ground car that scrapes on speed bumps, and shakes the occupants violently over increasingly common rough pavement, there are plenty of people who are starting to see that a few more inches of ground clearance and suspension travel HELP with that problem, and don't destroy their car's suspension as much as my Legacy GT did.

Subaru is selling what few WRX and STI models it is making, because it isn't making that many, and is keeping supply closely tethered to demand, not building up much inventory to speak of.

But they are building more and more XVs, so many in fact that the demand can continue to support the higher cost, but favorable exchange rate of continuing to build them in Japan, after they recently considered moving some production to the US factory in Indiana...

Forester has been a perennial best seller, despite going completely bland, just as Outback has.

Impreza sedan, and Legacy are the remaining sedans, because the body-style isn't dead, and likely won't die out completely as coupes unfortunately seem to have... but sedans are not where the future lies, not even WRX/STI's future, if it wants to have a brighter one.

Every other company on the market is bringing more mid-size and compact CUVS, as fast as they can bring them to market, and the fun factor is starting to emerge as something that might start to differentiate some from others. You are going to start seeing more and more performance packages and performance oriented model offerings of compact and mid-size SUVs, as they start becoming more popular, and need to differentiate themselves from a larger competitive field. As much as I HATE the fact, Juke Nismo may be the first... I despise the execution of that vehicle, but the premise of a performance-oriented compact CUV is sound, and ready to be the next big thing.

Subaru is going miss that boat, as they have missed so many others, if they don't realize the potential of putting their performance drivetrain into their most aggressively growing model, the XV. Forester, maybe, but XV is lighter weight, with a lower roof, but still with the clearance advantage, and the more likely candidate for a CUV performance model.

Looking back at DECADES past is not the answer. That time has come and gone. WRX and WRX STI were NEW IDEAS once, without precedent, and without "pedigree", and were more fun back then than they are now.

We need the next idea, not the old one.